Curse

Essence Snow · Jan 23, 2011, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Well since things have been able to be run, ppl have been running them for others for gold or equivilent. Whether it be a run from point A to point B or from start to finish, ppl pay other to get an objective completed.

Now here inlies my querry....What standards do you expect from a run?

Do you expect to stand idle while the runner performs his or her task? Do you expect to kill a few foes?

Where is the line where you say....This is not a run!

What do you think of runs gone bad? Are you still responsible for you end of the bargain given the other end is not kept?

When do you think payment for services should be paid? Start? Middle? End?

Basically just curious to what everyone thinks about the standards of runs.

TaeZ246 · Jan 23, 2011, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Now im not an expert on running, ive done some and gotten very few. But to answer your questions:

When i run people do whatever they want, so if they want to stand idle or if they want to go kill something thats up to them.

The line i draw is if the runner has failed 3-4 times or you are asked to bring heroes and tag along as they fight through an area.....thats not a run to me its just help

I think no matter what they spent time getting you there, if its for tips obviously dont tip as much, even when i run if it goes really bad i will accept lower prices because i know i took up their time.

I always take pay at the end. If they want to screw me ok fine, i usually trust people until they give me a reason not to.

LordDragon · Jan 23, 2011, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Agreed with TaeZ -

1. It is not a run if you need to bring heroes and help.

2. If the run is not completed then no gold should change hands. The completion of the run is what you are paying for.

3. I will pay a person at the spot that they want paid. On a mission sometimes that is right before the last part. I too trust people to do what they say and have only gotten stiffed once in snake dance. They were promptly reported.

4. If the run is 'for tips' I pay the going rate. Sometimes more because that's just how I am. If the run was smooth and fast then why not.

caballo_oscuro · Jan 23, 2011, 10:55 AM // 10:55

I've only taken a run once, when i was a noob in prophs and i regretted it so went back and played through the content.

If someone is looking to profit from running you, basically they are being paid to get you from point A to point B, like a taxi.

And like a taxi, the passenger isn't responsible for contributing to the run. The idea of a run being that the runner avoids all the obstacles/enemies for you.

Paying for it should be agreed between the runner and the runnee, if you don't like the runner's terms, agre something else, or find someone else, or coverthe content yourself. Usually, I wouldn't pay a taxi until I got to where I was going. If the runner keeps failing and you already paid them then what do you get for your money?

There are of course situations where someone offers to teach you how to play a part of the game, like fow/uw etc for which you would be taking instruction, and thus contributing to the work etc. Some people do this for profit, others just for fun. Again, agree with something that suits you, it's your money and they are trying to earn it. Make them earn it.

TiagoS1 · Jan 23, 2011, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Well, i used to run a lot. Not missions but things like Desert Run, Drok's Run, Vlox to Tarnished, etc..

Unlike you guys, i got scammed a few times, so, i usually require the payment in the MIDDLE of the run. I must say though, that if, for some reason i fail, i allways return the money.

The problem are the afk'ers. But got to live with that.

rokocoko · Jan 23, 2011, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I consider it a "run" if I don't have to do something specific to achieve the goal. As you know for sure, many so-called-runs imply that you bring/do some kind of damage/resurrect skills, sometimes only to make the run smoother - those are more like "helped runs".

If I have to fight my way to the end, definitely it's not a run.

I can cope with 2-3 failed runs, but if the problem persists, then, sorry, let's not waste each other's time

Since I pay for the final goal, I expect to pay at the end, but of course, it's a matter of trust. As long as the runner and the "runee" agree on terms, any bargain is allowed.

DigitalFear · Jan 23, 2011, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Interesting subject.

Quote:

Now here inlies my querry....What standards do you expect from a run?

As long as the guy does what he said he was going to do I'm happy.

Quote:

Do you expect to stand idle while the runner performs his or her task? Do you expect to kill a few foes?

I shouldn't be doing most of the task for him, I am paying him after all. However, I am willing to assist if there's no other way for him to do it himself.

Quote:

Where is the line where you say....This is not a run!

Pretty much what I said before. It's not a run if you do most of the task for him.

Quote:

What do you think of runs gone bad? Are you still responsible for you end of the bargain given the other end is not kept?

Nope.

Quote:

When do you think payment for services should be paid? Start? Middle? End?

Somewhere between middle-end. For example before a dungeon boss or at the start of the last area of a run.

Erik Fox · Jan 23, 2011, 04:00 PM // 16:00

When I was running, I only gave runs from Ascalon to LA. I asked 2k, 1k at Vale, and 1k at LA. If I was going to get scammed I felt at least I would get half out of the deal.

I recently paid a runner to do a Desert Tour for my sin, and he was okay. Claimed he was a 'pro' but failed getting to the last mission so much I ended up taking H/H and going there myself. He asked 1k here, 1k here, etc and I paid him in full in the middle. He was polite and returned the last 1k for the failed section.

I usually don't get runners who want everything first, but I will pay halfway. If I trust the runner at that point, I will pay in full with a tip at the end.

Rites · Jan 23, 2011, 06:44 PM // 18:44

run is supposed to equal "i can go afk" - which usually means i will pay up front letting the runner know that i will be afk the whole time, and luckily i've only been scammed once (desert run, only got me to 2 points, when i returned i was solo at spawn point and the guy was "not online"). those runs were point a to point b runs and for a survivor toon, and usually went smooth.

mission runs, i have yet to get. but i have been reading in allchat at certain outposts people offering runs, but you were expected to help and couldn't go afk, etc... that to me is BS, it defeats the purpose of a run.

when is a run bad? 2-3 repeats is understandable, any more than that and i leave party anyway. but most of the "good" runners don't have this issue, and usually if they just happen to be having bad luck, when they finally get through the run is free.

the thing that gets me is the prices of runs and ferries today. 2k for ferry to consulate docks? 2k for docks to LA? these are ridiculous.

jon comgree · Jan 23, 2011, 07:58 PM // 19:58

im a runner myself and heres the answers i have for u

I expect to run to be complete...how long it takes is up to the runner

depends on the run; dungeons i expect to kill maybe a handful of foes(for time purposes) that would usually take the runner alot longer to do. Any run from point A-B you shouldnt kill anything.

the line for this is not a run is when the runner keeps trying then says yall need to do something.

ALWAYS when a run is bad you keep end of your bargain no matter what-most pple make u pay b4 bc its more likely the runnee would scam u than the runner

PAYMENTS ARE ALWAYS WHERE THE RUNNER SAYS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN LEAVE.

these are my standards. And I believe many other people would agree with me.

RedDog91 · Jan 23, 2011, 09:04 PM // 21:04

I remember way back when factions came out I couldn't get through Napuhai Quarter mission. No matter what I tried, I couldn't win.

Saw some guy saying that he would run the mission for 2k. Me and a few other people in the same boat decided it was better to just pay so we could continue the game. After joining the party, he started telling us what builds to use.
"I thought you were gonna run the mission" I said.
"I am," he replied, "but you guys have to fight all the regular stuff and I just kill the bosses"

I left the party and have never gotten another mission/dungeon run in my life. I still get the occasional LA-ascalon run, but thats only if I'm level 10 or something with non-max armor...other times I make a rag-tag running build to get myself places.

Rushin Roulette · Jan 24, 2011, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Ill post my answer from am mission Runners POV as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

What standards do you expect from a run?

This depends on what you want run. If its help with a mission you cant figure out how to do/dont have Heroes or runed heroes / or dont want to do the mission alone, then you should expect that the runner is polite, helpfull and competent.
If you want to AFK a run, then you should expect the runner to do his job in a reasonable timeperiod with H/H.

Do you expect to stand idle while the runner performs his or her task? Do you expect to kill a few foes?

This again depends on what you want done. AFK = you kill nothing /tag along to map/ Goof off as long as it doesnt endanger the run.
If you want help, then you should actually help the runner. You should expect the runner to be able to supply you with builds and alternatives if you are missing skills and be able to explain the useage of the builds.

Where is the line where you say....This is not a run!

If the runner does nothing to contribute to finishing the service its not a run. Even if you just need help finishing a mission, then you should expect the Runner to be doing most of the work or showing you any tips which make the mission easier for the team.

What do you think of runs gone bad? Are you still responsible for you end of the bargain given the other end is not kept?

No, final payment should only be made if the run is a success. If you pay up front, then you should expect the money back at the end (Exception of course is if you intentionally cause the run to fail, then it is up to the runner to decide if compensation is due from being trolled).

When do you think payment for services should be paid? Start? Middle? End?

I generally go with the rule AFK = Payment up front, help with the run on completion. If an AFK run should fail, then the funds should be returned personally as soon as the AFK player is back (Dont drop the cash on the ground next to him as it is 1) rude and 2) the person can dissconnect and therefore not pick it up and you will have to hand over the funds again as you cant prove he picked it up when your not there).

As for standards of quality, Ive run a Monk who asked me which build to take for Minister Cho's Estate HM and I usually answer "Whatever is fun" as long as a mission doesnt need specific skills. He then put on a 100 Blades Mo/W build and added Frenzy after I joked that it was missing in his build

. I still completed the mission with him intentionally leeroying in as a low Armor/Double damage receiving melee Monk (I of course asked if the character was a survivor before starting the mission as I didnt expect him to reach the end without dying multiple times). As a runner I would never force anyone to run any specific build on his own bar. If anything is missing I will name alternatives or explain where a skill can be bought from a trainer / Capped from a boss.

If I dont know a mission or know that im not good at it I say so before we start the mission so that the person who wants the service has the chance of getting out of the deal before potentially wasting his time if he/she is impatient.

Now for the other side of the coin what a runner should expect from the player he is running.

The player should be polite and honest.
Dont scam a runner. He is going out of his way to help you achieve your goal. He could be working on his own titles somewhere else instead of completing one of those long Prophecies Jungle missions for the 50th time .
Tell the runner if you have any special needs / request (Survivor, Capping skills in Dragons Lair or mapping in a mission for example). It is not the runners fault if you loose survivor and he doesnt know to look out for that.
If you have a question about a mission / build during the run, dont be afraid to ask. A good runner will always give you hints and tips on completion. In the end. If a runner is rude and inconsiderate... would you seek out his services again?